good evening. welcome to new york. it's 5:00 eastern. >> does being a good christian mean fighting health care reform or supporting it? >> repeal every single word of obamacare. >> there is this radical group of christians that is trying to make the case that it is of faith-based effort that this is the right thing to do. no illness or accident should lead to any family's financial ruin. >> he talked about obamacare in general term and how his faith compels him to do this for the needy and people who don't have care. is that using his faith to push an unpopular policy? >> if you're sick, you will finally have the same chance to get quality affordable health care as everyone else. >> being a christian. >> christian. >> i do not think it mean what

you think it means. >> far too many candidates wear their faith on their sleeve. >> you cannot be serious. >> you want these benefits that hundreds of thousands of texans now have, you want them taken away. >> that's not exactly right. >> you're not exactly the smartest guy i ever ran across. >> oh, yeah? who are you? alfred einstein? >> the point of reform is to lower the cost and make health care affordable. not impossible for the middle class. >> thank you. and god bless you. >> good to have you with us on the "ed show." let's start with a prayer. dear lord in this house of worship called ed tonight, we bring praise to you dear lord and give us the strength to fight back against these soldiers of defeat and these soldiers of deceit when it comes to obamacare. give us the strength to heal the sick and help the poor because we know that's what you want, lord. amen. see, i have to start every show

with a prayer as of late. because there is all this lying going on at town hall meetings across america with these republican congressmen going home saying obamacare is bad for america. it simply is not. it is fantastic. i would make the case that obamacare, along with civil rights legislation, that we passed back in the '60s, is the most moral thing this country has ever done when it comes to a collective government body. this is good for america. and i won't let them lie. they're phony christians. phony christians when they say that they are christian but then they want to take away from their next door neighbor. they don't want to be their brother's keeper. here's the bottom line. i'm still waiting for this evangelical pastor to show up on the "ed show" and tell us is this christian like behavior to take away health care from a fellow american? from a fellow citizen? from a person of god? is that what we're all about as

a country? where is our moral fiber? a growing number of right wing christians are coming out day after day as a christian, i think i have the right to expose their hypocrisy and call them out for all the thing they are saying wrong and how misguided they are. >> make no mistake. there is no moral or religious case for taking away health care from 30 million americans. it is very simple. if obamacare is repealed, americans will die. children of god will die. is that the moral position we have as country? it is a fact. every christian should keep this in mind. however, for reasons unknown, christians have been attacking the affordable care act as if it is the devil. pat robson, manager's favorite doomsday prophet said americans must rise up against obamacare.

>> this example of state socialism is something that americans should rise up against. they snuck that thing by us. it was strictly partisan initiative. but the famous quote from the then speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, we have to pass it so we can find out what's in it. 26, 2,700 pages of gobbledy gook. >> 2,700 pages? is there a law somewhere? is it god's law somewhere that if it is over or under 27, we're all sinners? are we talking politics or the moral fiber of the country? we as representative government have decided to do this. to help the sick and to help the pour. isn't that your position as a christian? because it doesn't sound like it from that sound bite. unfortunately, it is not only tv evangelists who are using religion to try to steal your herring.

you have a right to health care. we have voted on this. you are an american citizen. we have rights! outgoing congresswoman michele bachmann from the great state of minnesota. she is making the case that repealing obamacare is the christian thing to do. >> let's repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. let's not do that. let's love people as people of faith, i am a born again believer in jesus christ. and i believe that as part of my duty as a believer in christ and what he has done for me. that we should do for the least of those who are in our midst. that's my personal belief and my personal conviction. >> she says that obamacare is going to kill people bachmannball has used her faith to advance her celebrity more than anybody else in congress.

the fact is that bachmann is now using religion to try to steal health care from 30 million americans. it is downright despicable. it is disingenuous and she is a liar. obamacare will not kill anyone as a christian, michele bachmann should be ashame of herself. meanwhile the christian movement against obamacare, it is growing. because that's all they're talking about at town halls. as i showed you on this program last weekend, senator ted cruz of texas received a standing ovation from a crowd of conservative christians when he said that he wanted to abolish obamacare. >> there is no more important regulatory reform that we can do than to repeal every single word of obamacare.

regulatory reform. do we want to reform the bible? do we want to reform the christian faith? these people are phony christians. they preach out of one side of their mouth and they operate out of another. to the detriment of americans who need help. denying people. think about this. denying people with preexisting conditions health care is morally wrong. yet they stand on solid ground in their mind that it is the right thing to do. denying 30 million americans health care is simply the wrong way to go. that's not what we want as a country. all this talk about how it is an unpopular policy. no, it's not. it's not. this is what the majority of americans want. we should also point out to congresswoman bachmann that lying is wrong. >> the american people lose control? what do they get? they get health care, health insurance, i should say, that is more expensive than anything they've ever paid for before and they get less for it.

whoa, what a deal, mr. president, mr. speaker. what a deal. the american people especially vulnerable women, vulnerable children, vulnerable senior citizens, now get to pay more and get less. that's why we're here. >> congresswoman bachmann, do you have the guts to come to new york and spend one hour with me on camera and let's debate and let's get the facts out about obamacare? why not? i mean, if everything you say on the floor is correct, you could easily say it here in the studios in new york. no one ever challenges you about your faithful no one ever challenges you about what you say and the lies you spew about obamacare. give me a chance. i'm on bended knee. come on, michele. you don't have anything to lose. you're not running for office again. certainly you're in command of the facts in your mind. you can certainly stand your ground easily against me. come on! this is what they have done.

they have isolated themselves away from the real debate in question about what these folks are saying on the campaign trail, and in the halls of congress. they are lying to the american people. bachmann is wrong. obamacare is not going to bankrupt anybody. states now have actually set-up health care exchanges. are seeing premiums drop. in the state of new york, here alone, health insurance rates are set to drop by at least 50% in the next year. not only does obamacare save money by giving 30 million americans health care and health insurance. it lifts people out of poverty. it makes sure that they're never going to go bankrupt with a medical bill. americans are going to love this when this is fully implemented. love. that's a heck of a word. let's focus on love for a moment.

senator mitch mcconnell was in his home state of kentucky this week and he is starting to feel the love. >> there are a handful of things in the 2,700 page bill that probably are okay. but that doesn't warrant a 2,700 page takeover of all of american health care. >> wait a minute. let's get out of the numbers. let's put the number to the side about how big and thick the bill is. did you hear him say that there is a handful of things that are okay? let's help the senate minority leader from kentucky out. i'll give you two handfuls. here are ten things that you are going to love about obamacare. here it is. number one. 30 million americans will get health care. number two, what we will see is preexisting conditions will be covered. if you're sick now, you will be able to get insurance. number three. this is a good one. you cannot get dropped by your insurance company if you are sick.

four americans can stay on their parents' plan. here's number five. the end of the firsthandful. free preventive care. you can go and get a colonoscopy and not have to pay for it. you know, you find out if you got the silent killer which is cancer? colon cancer? number six. free well women doctor visits. number seven. the republicans don't like that because of the war on women. and here we are with free birth control. isn't that important? isn't that a choice that society should have? number eight. you're going to save money. i get calls on my radio show of people seeing their premiums going from 1,100 to $650. that's real savings. number nine, the country is going to save money. the congressional budget office has done the math. we're going to save $1 trillion. and finally, the medicare

loophole. the doughnut hole is closing. if you're young you don't worry about that but if you're a senior, it is a big savings. how in the world can they go from town hall meetings and consistently lie about those. two handful of things that are good for america. here's the political twist. they know, the republicans know, their last chance is to shut down the government. they know that one year from now, this is going to be widely popular. they were the ones that went through with obamacare. they are the ones saving lives. they are ones bringing down the cost. campaign against a widely popular program that is successful, and you didn't support it. that's not a very good place to be. get your cell phones out. is the christian conservative campaign against obamacare

dangerous for america? you can go to our blog at msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later in the show. let's focus on the faith of this. for more, let's turn to liberal commentator and also, ken, from the family research council. let's go to you first. thanks for being on the program. >> i'm a little perplexed at the christian conservative position that aligns itself with the republican party. what is the moral stance of christians to take away health care from americans? >> there are several things. it is not taking away anything from anyone. if it is not something that they're constitutionally entitled to. for never from a public policy standpoint. i want people to have good quality health care as possible. which is why i opposed

obamacare. >> the way the law is written right now, that if you have insurance, and if you were sick, that cannot be taken away from you. your party who claim to align it southwesterly the christian conservatives, say that they want to take that away. what is the moral position on that? how can you reason that that is morally, that has real moral fiber to it when you're taking something away from a sick american? >> there are several things, ed. it is because i'm a christian, i'm opposed to a system that will result in denial of care, delay of care. >> those two things you said are lies. you know there's no denial of care. no denial. we won't let you say that on this program. be fair. this is a moral position. >> ed, ed, these things are not free. >> i'm not talking about cost. i'm not talking about cost. i'm talking about a moral position. where a governing body, the people in a representative government have decided to do

this for fellow americans. yet your position is to take that away. >> as a christian i believe in submitting to lawful authority. taking care of public health and public safety and general social welfare is a state issue. >> is this hypocritical? >> i mean no disrespect to ken when i say if jesus came back today, it would be difficult to hear his message of love and tolerance over the scream of conservative christians calling him a socialist. what could be more christian than sending 45,000 people back to die because they can't afford care every year? what could be more christian than telling sick children, they can't get care because preexisting conditions are back. what could be more christian than putting $120 billion a year on the deficit. jesus said in matthew 10:9, he commands his followers to heal the sick. he heals more people than can be counted. don't forget, the good samaritan paid for an ill grant's health care out of pocket.

this is why the church built so many hospitals. they were following jesus' marching orders. >> is this a good place for the republicans to be on the campaign trail? they'll waive the plastic jesus in one hand and they'll take away and try to repeal obamacare in the other hand. >> i think when people get a sense of what is involved, going into 2016, i absolutely think it is a winning issue. if we look to countries that have a national government run health care system like in britain where you have to wait 55 days for cancer surgery. 43 days for heart bypass. you talk about finding out what's wrong with people. >> there's waiting in every system. i had to wait six weeks for an angiogram. come on now. there's waiting every where. >> let's take good example. in the u.s., the average wait time for an mri is two days. in britain, it is 100 days. >> get in to see a doctor on a whim in this country or any country for that matter.

this is the moral question. the religious question. is it, i think conservatives purport to be christians are on shaky moral ground when you want to take something away with someone who is on the verge of death? i don't get that. >> that's where people are going to have to decide. >> i'll give you the last word. >> my wife is a practicing e.r. physician. >> my wife is a psychiatric nurse as well. if we're going on share resumes we can do that. i want you to have the last word. >> honestly, i appreciate the time. republicans are terrified of republican created health care bill enacted by a republican governor in massachusetts upheld by the republican supreme court saving republican lives. that's what they're terrified about. in matthew jesus says it. he lays it out. you received without payment now, give without payment. >> good to have you. i appreciate the discussion. a judge tries to stop mayor michael bloomberg's policy in its tracks.

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we are reporting, here are this week's top trenders voted on by you. number three trender. oceans 16. >> our group of 16 public employees work at a county garage on the jersey shore. >> seeing what happened with super storm sandy last year, it couldn't happen to a better group of people. >> the jersey shore residents are swimming in cash after winning last week's powerball jackpot. >> we're very happy happy happy. my poor husband is no longer poor we lost our home so the first thing i'm going to do is buy me and my daughter a home and bring my dog back home. >> win herbs get to do what they want. >> our number two trender. the name game.

>> is messiah a name or a title? >> i didn't ath judge could make me change the name. >> it is a title that has only been ernld by one person. that one person is jesus christ. ♪ >> a judge goes biblical on tennessee parents during a court hearing. >> child support judge louian ordered his name be market. >> his name will be messiah to me and everyone else. >> the week's top trender. frisk management. >> there may be some good news on the horizon if you happen to be a minority who likes walking. >> the federal judge has come down hard on one of the most controversial police tactics in the country. >> critics scored wayne. the touchy subject has many defenders. >> you get to feel the fish up

and shout at it before throwing it back. >> between 2004 and 2012, there were 4.43 million stops. >> also, almost all the fish are brown. >> 52% were black suspects. 31% were hispanic. >> i can assure that you race is never a reason to conduct a stop. >> young men of color being singled out in racially profile every single day. >> we are the poster child that everybody wants to follow. joining me now, congressman jeffries of new york. this story has captivated this city with the mayor's race coming up. what is right, what's wrong in all of this? >> well, this was a significant step forward that was taken by the federal court. in a democracy, there has to be a balance between effective law enforcement on the one hand and a healthy respect for civil rights and civil liberties on the other. under the bloomberg administration, the police

commissioner has obliterated that balance and has taken an article 3 federal judge to step in and try to restore it. stop and frisk as a tool can be available to the police department but it shouldn't be abused and used in excess. that's what has been happening. >> the police commissioner says race isn't involved. do you believe that? >> when approximately 90% of the people who are stopped, questioned and frisked over the last decade are black and latino and the overwhelming majority of those individuals are innocent, law abiding residents that have done nothing wrong. the only conclusion we can draw is that race is the factor. >> bloomberg says he is going to areas where the crime is. well, here's the thing. they may be stopping and questioning and frisking individuals in high crime neighborhoods. but they're targeting innocent law-abiding individuals. not the individuals who actually are committing the crimes. >> what has it done to the city? what are you hearing? >> part of the problem is that it has poisoned the relationship between police and the communicate. i would, a to you that stop and frisk in excess makes it harder

for the police to do their jobs. it minimizes the cooperation the police need to adequately promote public safety. it has promoted a problem as it relates to the ability of the communities of color. >> i want to play you an ad. here it is. >> the only one who will end a stop and frisk era that unfairly targets people of color. he will be the mayor forever. i would say that even if he weren't my dad what do you think of that? >> i think it is important that the mayoral candidates to varying degrees, bill has addressed it pretty thoroughly. others have addressed it with significant degree of precision

he is married to a black woman and his son is biracial. >> his son, down the streets of new york. he can easily be a target for a stop and frisk encounter simply on the basis of the color of his skin. that's not anecdote. that's statistical reality. >> bloomberg says we are the model. i'm paraphrasing here. he thinks other cities want to be just like new york. should there be a federal law against stop and frisk? >> i think the supreme court in 1968 said that stop and frisk is constitutional. but there has to be reasonable suspicion that an individual has either committed a crime or about to commit a crime. the problem is that in new york, the reasonable suspicion standard has been completely obliterated and ignored. >> good to have you here. thank you. voting rights take a hit in the tar heel state. our rapid response panel takes on that topic and more. and later know wall street is

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this is proof positive of intellectual deficiency on the part of the republicans. they're trying to massage their message to the point where they would, number one, not get full exposure to how they think. where they would not be tested. i mean, i don't think americans will go along with this at all. this is a stupid move by reince priebus and the republicans.

they ought to be asking for more debates if they believe in what they say. they should be asking for as many debates as they can possibly get. from any moderator anywhere. because if they truly believe that they stand on solid ground with their issues, the last thing they should do is go pick and choose their network and pick and choose their talkers. i think they might ask a question but they probably make a statement looking for a response. our next question come from josh jones. he wants to know. do you have any advice for college freshmen starting a new school year this fall? well, you can always get a podcast to the ed schultz radio show. it is only $25 for the entire year. that way you'll be on the straight and narrow. i say follow the news cycle and relate it to your life. the reason why i say that, this will get you in the habit, thinking of what is america doing for me.

what can i do for myself? what are the opportunities out there? and if you get both sides of the story, and you relate it to your life and you pay attention to the news cycle, you'll be much more informed to make decisions later on and you'll be a better citizen. why would you want to exclude yourself from what's happening? the postal service is critical to our economy. delivering mail, medicine and packages, yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service and want to layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains

$5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it.

the blisters were oozing, and painful to touch. i woke up to a blistering on my shoulder. i spent 23 years as a deputy united states marshal and i've been pretty well banged up but the worst pain i've experienced was when i had shingles. when i went to the clinic, the nurse told me that it was a result of having had chickenpox. i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. thanks for watching. as the gop desperately tries to overcome the gap with minority voters by suppressing the vote with legislative bodies taking

action on states around the circus libertarian senator rand paul from kentucky wants you to think that he is the champion for civil rights. >> there is no greater defender of minority rights. if you include minorities to be the color of your skin or the color of your ideology than myself. i will stand up there with the most progressive members of the caucus in the senate and say, you know what? civil liberties are important. they're important, particularly because of some of the egregious things that happen in america's history. >> he'll even stand with progressives? you heard it right. senator rand paul believes he is not one of the best. he believes he is the greatest defender of minority rights. what does the greatest defender of minority rights think about discrimination and recent elections? in an interview, the senator from kentucky said, in this election cycle, in the last election cycle, african-americans voted at a higher percentage than whites in

almost everyone of the states that were under special provisions of the federal government. so really, i don't think there is objective evidence that we're precluding african-americans from voting any longer. really? do you know what, dude? you need to get with the facts. you need on get with the program. facts are facts. let me give you one. in 2012, black and hispanic voters waited almost twice as long, twice as long in lines to cast ballots than white voters. that's just a coincidence in kentucky, isn't it? it's a coincidence around the country in florida and ohio. it is one of those coincidences, rate? give me a break. this is not how democracy is supposed to be run. and do you know what? i did not hear you being the greatest defender when all of this was happening on election day. certainly, there was member of coverage leading up to the election about what voters, especially minority neighborhoods were going to be facing. but you were, as my old friend

robert bird would say, ominously silent. joining me now is our rapid response panel. state senator nina turner of ohio, james peterson and also, msnbc contributor, dr. michael eric dyson. great to have you all with us tonight. it never ceases to amaze me what comes out of the mouth of rand paul. how can anyone deny that voter suppression efforts have directly targeted minorities. your thoughts on. this you have fought the good fight. i remember doing a story with you standing out, waiting and also complaining about the number of hours and the number of voting machines in certain neighborhoods. how can he come to this conclusion? >> even life on bars knows that african-american voters and poor voters and people who live in urban areas had to wait in longer lines.

he is delusional. i don't know where he has been. it is obvious what the gop is tried to do. not just in ohio. they're trying to choke out democracy. the hallmark of our country is that we have made progress in this nation. and we have elected officials who are trying to take us backwards and we cannot stand for it. and more importantly, we cannot be cool, calm and collected about folks who are trying to deny the right to vote of anyone. >> dr. dyson, does rand paul have issues of credibility when it comes to being a defender of minority rights? >> he went to howard university and fancied himself to be the defender, and yet he was roundly and soundly defeated in that delusion. i think here again, people think because black people made such an extraordinary effort. that despite the obstacles to overcome them to get to the polls no, obstacles exist. now we're being, if you will, punished for our persistence as

opposed to acknowledge the obstacles and impediments that have been unfairly put in our place. the reality is not only did we stand in line longer there were efforts to convince people that the voting day was a one day and not the other. it is an extraordinary mark against the voting of american society. >> and dr. peterson, doesn't this become a great ally for minorities? it would seem to me group would be able to go to rand paul now and say, you've declared yourself as the greatest defender of minority rights. can you help us with what the heck is going on in north carolina? >> yeah, i don't think north carolinians will by a that from senator paul. i'm not sure what he means by the color of his ideology, too. maybe they can help me out with that. listen, the attack on voting rights has been systematic. when you look at the gutting of the voting rights act. when you look at the

implementation of these voter i.d. laws. and they're cutting early voting. it is also very, very essential to democracy within the black community. because churches organize around those sundays before election days to get out the vote and there are politicians on the right who specifically targeted early voting for these reasons. so there is a systematic attempt. preclearance was working or trying to keep one the different ways in which they try to disenfranchise people. and the supreme court said because it is working, we don't need it anymore. it is a challenging time. >> as i said in our opening segment, i think there are phony christians on the right and phony defenders of minority rights who profess that they are the greatest when it comes to defending. where was all this defense in ohio? where was all this defense in north carolina? where is all this defense when it comes to long lines in florida? rand paul is a fraud when he says that. >> the billboards that went up

in communities of color in the state of ohio all across the state, where were they when the environment of intimidation was created? to try to suppress the vote of folks. because they can't win, they really don't genuinely care about anybody that a worker, about children, they tried to rig the game. our democracy cannot stand for anybody trying to rig the game. and the gop, they are doing that. we need to trust them and believe what they say because they have let us know exactly where they stand through their actions and their deeds. our next topic. suppression bills have been drauds across the country in the wake of the supreme court's doigs gut key provisions of the voting rights act. none have been more radical than the one signed on monday. last monday. in north carolina work the governor pat mccrory. the new law reduces early voting by a week which we've been talking about. the law gets rid of same day voter registration. where's the upside?

it ends preregistration for 16 and 17-year-old who's want to get involved and requires voters to have, listen to this, a government issued photo i.d. now, in 2012, 2.5 million ballots were cast in north carolina during the early voting period. that's more than half of all of the ballots cast in the election. 70% of african-americans cast their ballot during early voting. compared to just 52% of white voters. now, listen to this number. this is big in north carolina. an estimated 300,000 registered voters in north carolina do not have an accepted form of government i.d. meaning a driver's license. dr. dyson, what does this mean? well, this means that the rules by which american citizens put george w. bush into office are no longer salient. no longer applicable. tell me why? what is the difference? could it be the color of one's ideology? yes. because they are progressive? liberals? because they would vote for barack obama? there is a direct correlation

between the voter suppression laws that we see going on the books now and the attempt on the african-american vote. when you put all these together, in concert with what up, the reality is that we have got a suppression across the board and it has to be addressed. >> we can talk for hours on it. great to have a great panel. thank you so much. tonight in our survey, i asked you, is the christian conservative campaign against obamacare dangerous for america? 95% of you say yes. 5% of you say no. up next, ted goes loco. and it is landing him in the land of pretenders. how do you do a summer clearance event the dodge way? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪

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steve stockman's potential birther bill. >> if it is truly illegal, he shouldn't be there. >> he went on to say obamacare is racist because the bill's tanning tax only affects white folks. >> i was in the office the other day. very dark skin, with two nondark skin people. and i asked this to him. and they started laughing. i said have you ever been to a letang booth? he goes, no, no need. so therefore it's a racist tax. >> he didn't stop there. while explaining his vote to cut food tax, he insisted most people on food stamps didn't really need assistance. >> not one person will lose a calorie or crumb that deserves it. >> really? a strange sentiment from someone who relied on the social safety net when he was out of work.

>> but caroline and i when we were about 9 or 20, when jimmy carter was in office, inflation shot up, interest rates went up to 22%. we lost our job. and so we went on food stamps for about a month and a half work the months. >> how about that? a 9 or 20-year-old kid might need a little bit of help. if congress and ted yoho thinks he is the only person in history who has ever deserved food stamps, he can keep on pretending. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004.

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purchasing in, punching out. welcome back to "the ed show." this is the story for folks who take a shower after work. wall street is having another record year. the dow is up over 15% since january. big business has trillions of dollars in untouched revenue. and average americans are fighting for every penny they can. there's a very simple way to

help balance the playing field. it's called the transaction tax. conservatives hate it. wall street hates it. but look what it would do for america. democrats have been pushing this for years. and it's a story that doesn't get enough attention. this is what i said about it back in january. here's five 20s. there's $100. visualize this. there's $100. every time there's $100, there's three cents. i better get my piggy bank out here. just like that. that's it. that's it. $100. three cents. there you have it. what could we do with $352 billion? do you think maybe we could pay for at least one of the wars? or do you think maybe we could insure maybe another 30 people? do the math. that would pay for about half of obamacare. that would really make the righties happy. but think about it. why is it that number one, wall

street doesn't get prosecuted, and number two, they get off scott free on these transactions? this is an easy thing. and nobody's going to feel it. everything is going to be fine. and guess what? congress has done nothing this year, including making any strides on the transaction tax. but one of the leaders of the progressive movement is pushing it again. here's what congressman keith ellison said. >> people like bill gates, warren buffett, dean baker, robert poland, have all said they support transaction tax. and so the bottom line is we're not broke. there's plenty of money. it's just the government doesn't have it. >> would it break wall street? would it really cripple our economy? could we raise taxes on those transactions to the point where it could help the treasury? for more, i'm joined tonight by david cay johnston,

pulitzer-prize winning author of "the fine print." would wall street even feel the pinch of three cents on the dollar? and what would it do? >> well, no. and i think it's kind of surprising that we are seeing this reaction against this tax. it meets the basic virtues of the tax. it's clear what it is. it's easy to apply. it's progressive because it's not going to affect what the exemptions you and i doing a trade of 100 shares or taking money out of an account. it's for these hedge funds that deal with borrowed money, trade by computer, and are in and out of the stock in a matter of minutes. >> well, this would -- three cents on $100. why would wall street be against this if it's these automatic transactions that we're talking about that really doesn't involve anybody? they just kick in. >> well, it will in fact cost them money. there's a cost there. when you're doing billions of

dollars and billions and billions of trades, it will certainly affect those operations. but, you know, it wasn't so long ago that the cost of trading was way up here. now it's way down here. it's become minute compared to 40 years ago. but the real thing this is designed to do is not just raise money. it's to discourage speculative behavior with borrowed money, that means my or your paycheck, that's going on. these people are not adding to the economy. they are manipulating the market and speculating in ways that add no wealth to the country. >> and do you think it would help curtail the speculation or understand it? >> i think it certainly will. it will certainly lead these managers to think more carefully about what they're doing and to pull back somewhat. so the revenue projections could be on a bit on the high side, but that would be a good thing. and the conservatives have been

attacking this is aing that it's anti-freedom. the british have had this tax since the late 1600s. singapore, that's always cited by the right as a model of economic freedom, it has a transaction tax. hong kong has a transactions tax. >> so can we just guess what it would do to the treasury? >> oh. there have been some estimates it would bring in several hundred billion dollars a year. the last estimate i saw, it would take the deficit, which has already come down tremendously under president obama, it would cut it further in half. >> well, if it would do that, that would be absolutely amazing. i guess -- >> yeah. it's a virtuous tax, ed. i think it's a much better tax than ones that hit people at the bottom. and it's one of a number of things we should be doing to address this concentration of wealth at the top not from

making better mouse traps and providing better services but churning stocks and using borrowed money to speculate. >> i want to ask you a question not on a different topic. the banks are making money hand over fist. they are having a hell of a year. and it's good for them, the capitalists, whatnot. but the fact is that we still see a real tight market when it comes to access to capital. or am i wrong on that? >> well, the fundamental problem is that the too big to fail banks have grown about 50% since the economic crisis. we're seeing less and less competition. small business owners, the people who get the economy, new jobs and are growing, they are having a hard time finding access to capital. the very biggest companies, those 2,700, 2,800 biggest companies i often talk about in your show, they are sitting on several trillion dollars of cash, more than they can possibly put to work, which is further evidence that we need a tax system that makes that money

go to work. >> david kcay johnston, always great to have you on the show show. and that is "the ed show." have a good one. ol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪

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